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Sunday, April 08, 2007

Transcript of Hutcherson on CNN

At Slog the other day, Eli Sanders posted another "Note from the Payer Warrior," the email missives from anti-gay preacher Ken Hutcherson, this time about Hutcherson's appearance on CNN.

Sanders has been doing a fine job keeping tabs on Hutcherson - especially his recent trip to Latvia to make common cause with bigots there.

Here's a partial transcript of what Hutcherson tried to sell on CNN. The segment aired April 5th, 2007, according to CNN.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: This debate is clearly one which divides families, causes many people pain. Joining us to talk about it more, is Ken Hutcherson in Seattle. He's the founder and senior pastor and one of the most vocal leaders in the fight against same-sex marriage. And in Dallas, the Reverend Joe Hudson the senior pastor at Cathedral of Hope, which has a predominantly gay and lesbian congregation. I appreciate the both of you being with us.

Reverend Hudson, can a church cure a person's homosexuality in your opinion?

REVEREND JOE HUDSON, PASTOR CATHEDRAL OF HOPE: Well, I wouldn't believe that homosexuality needed to be cured. So, I wouldn't necessarily feel it the responsibility of a church to cure homosexuality

COOPER: When you hear the idea of a cure, what do you think?

HUDSON: Well, I go back to my understanding of faith. It says that human sexuality is a gift of God. And that that human sexuality is something that can be used for good or for bad. But that it is essentially a gift of God and should be honored and treated with great respect. And so, I include the full spectrum of homosexuality in that.

COOPER: Pastor Hutcherson, even those people in Gary's report who say they are cured of homosexuality, admit they have feelings of attraction to people of the same sex. They're essentially just living their lives suppressing those feelings. Is that what God wants?

KEN HUTCHERSON, PASTOR ANTIOCH BIBLE CHURCH: Well, I think anything that the Bible calls sin, Anderson, when a person is cured of alcoholism, does that mean that they are completely set free from ever wanting a drink? No. They are not. Or someone that has a problem with tremendous amounts of lust. If they are cured of that, that doesn't mean those feelings aren't there. Just because the feelings are there, don't make it right or wrong. What makes it right or wrong is what the bible has to say.

COOPER: And you believe it is possible to be cured? Of homosexuality?

HUTCHERSON: Absolutely. I think it's possible to be cured of any sin that the Bible calls. Because that's what the Holy Spirit does. That's what repentance does. And that's why we think that homosexuality is a choice. And that it is a sin. And they need to repent that sin and God gives them the strength to walk in a life that pleases him. COOPER: Reverend Hudson, do you believe the Bible says homosexuality is sin?

HUDSON: I believe there are passages in scripture that point to that. But I understand scripture and the bible in a very different way than I think that Reverend Hutcherson does. I look at scripture as a sacred text. The Bible as a sacred and sacramental text. But I also look at it as a text that points to a history and a culture and a very different kind of people that lived then, as do we now.

COOPER: What do you think Reverend Hutcherson? Do you -- there are those who say Jesus never talked about homosexuality. If you read the Bible, there's nothing he ever said about it. If it was so important, why wouldn't he have championed it? Or talked about it?

HUTCHERSON: Well, Jesus never talked about a lot of things that came directly from his mouth. But I think that Reverend Hudson would also agree that we believe in the whole New Testament and Old Testament was inspired by God. And it was inspired by the Holy Spirit who led men along to write those books, those 66 books in the bible. The 27 in the New Testament, is the ones that lays out the whole truth of God. Not just what Jesus says. And she would have to agree that the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin. You know, it says that men left the natural desire of a woman and went after a man. And a woman left the natural desire of a man and went after a woman. If the Bible says they left the natural that means the bible says it homosexuality is unnatural. And that's where I stand.

COOPER: Reverend Hudson, the gays and lesbians in your congregation, I imagine some of them have been in other congregations and felt that they were no longer welcome and found a place at your house of worship. What have they been through? For many, this is an academic discussion. It's an academic debate. For people in your congregation this, is very real. And this has real pain and real costs. What are the stories that your congregation tells you?

HUDSON: Well, we hear from people every day, and every week, from people not only in the Dallas-Ft.Worth Metroplex, but people all over the world, who have been rejected by their churches. Who have left the church of Jesus Christ, who want to be in a relationship with God. Who want to have a healthy, strong relationship with a God who loves them. And yet, have been turned away from church after church. And have come to our congregation and been affirmed. Have come close to God. Have through the reading and the study of scripture, come close to god. Have transformed their lives into lives of service and servant hood. Making a difference in the lives of others. And living very Christian, disciplined lives.

COOPER: Reverend Hutcherson, do you believe that someone who is gay, happy about it, living a life and has a partner, do you believe they're going to hell?

HUTCHERSON: I think if they have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, that's the key to get into heaven. Not whether or not you are a homosexual or not a homosexual. Whether you're white or whether you're black. The Bible says if haven't accepted Jesus Christ you are a condemned. He is the only way. That is where I stand, bro and I don't even think twice about it.

COOPER: Pastor Hutcherson I appreciate it and Pastor Hudson as well. Thank you very much.

HUDSON: Thank you for having me.
You can say a lot of things about that, but this is why we can't have a theocracy. The issue isn't what Hutcherson and his church followers want to believe in their Constitutionally protected church; the issue is how the civil government treats all citizens equally under the law. It's not hard to understand, but Hutcherson either doesn't want to understand it or has so little regard for the First Amendment that he thinks it's okay to blur the line between church and state.

As for all the "curing gay people" business, it's offensive as can be, but I suppose if folks want to believe oddball stuff they will. They'd probably be offended if someone suggested there is a cure for fundamentalism, but that's another discussion.

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